Don't These Guys Claim: Highest Quality Cars Ever Built?

"SBA Thanks You For All The Fish" (santabarbarianlsx) 06/24/2020 at 15:47 • Filed to: None

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Whenever I post about the Tesla line having the “quality of a 1980s Kia”, I get yelled at a lot by Cultists , so it’s interesting to see the hard data reported from a n ewsletter that LIKES Tesla. Wow. This is pretty revealing.

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ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 15:53

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Is crashing  into a median considered a “problem”?

sony1492 > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 15:54

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Bmw being ahead of To yota and Honda says this data is worthless

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 06/24/2020 at 15:55

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Only in the first 60 days after delivery.  After that?  Feature.

HammerheadFistpunch > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 15:55

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I still don’t understand how TESL A has the power to stop people in 13 states from participating.

PS9 > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 15:56

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1. Dodge 2. Kia.

...19. Honda. 20. Toyota. The fuck? If Alfa gets 1st place next year, you will know this shit is rigged. 

WilliamsSW > sony1492 06/24/2020 at 15:57

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“initial quality" is kinda bullshit imho.  Tells you NOTHING about reliability.  Just tells you whether shit's broken immediately.  

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > HammerheadFistpunch 06/24/2020 at 15:58

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Well.... remember when Tesla FINALLY fixed all those defective front control arms on the Model S... but only if the owners agreed to really-nasty, really-binding “non disclosure agreements”?

There’s gotta be a gag order of some sort.

ttyymmnn > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 15:58

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If you lie loudly enough, and often enough, people will start to believe you. 

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 15:59

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This is Initial Quality, how good things are the day they roll out of the dealership.  These are not rankings 5 years down the road, I know a few Tesla owners they just expect a few trips back to the dealer to get assembly problems fixed. 

Just Jeepin' > ttyymmnn 06/24/2020 at 16:03

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Our current dilemma in a nutshell. 

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 06/24/2020 at 16:03

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Tesla claims to have no dealers... but yeah, I get your point. There’s traditionall y been a l ot of “fixing the trim and fit and missing components” in the parking lot of the Tesla Service Center.  

BTW, on a slight tangent, I was in a Chevy Parts Department this morning in search of a very obscure part, Holden sourced, non-US-consumer market item... and the staff could NOT have been more helpful and accommodating. I “get” that all Tesla fans hate dealers... I just don’t understand why.  Some of my best customer service experiences have happened at the Chevy, GMC or Toyota dealership.

HammerheadFistpunch > WilliamsSW 06/24/2020 at 16:06

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not even broken. “issues” I would venture that most of the “issues” on Lexus or Toyota is someone not being able to pair their phone.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ttyymmnn 06/24/2020 at 16:06

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If you like your rear bumper, you can keep your rear bumper...

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/tesla-model-3-loses-bumper-after-driving-in-the-rain-ar182141.html

https://jalopnik.com/bumper-falls-off-brand-new-tesla-model-3-after-30-minut-1828306917

smobgirl > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:06

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Not even enough room on the list for Fiat.

WilliamsSW > HammerheadFistpunch 06/24/2020 at 16:08

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I'm sure you're right - and infotainment systems are likely a huge driver of issues overall (I'm too lazy to click the link to be sure haha).

haveacarortwoorthree2 > HammerheadFistpunch 06/24/2020 at 16:10

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Some states require the mfr to give permission so survey companies can get registration data . Why? I have no idea.

ttyymmnn > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:12

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Fortunately, it doesn’t rain all that much in TX.

*looks outside*

**it’s raining**

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:20

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I said it on the FP article, but Initial Quality is such a worthless metric. It holds no actual value in determining a vehicle’s overall ownership experience.

Of course Tesla’s is trash, but if after the 90 days it has zero issues, wouldn’t you rather have that instead of the other way around?

I’m not saying you would with a Tesla or any other brand that scored low, I just think it leaves out such a huge part of the ownership picture.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HammerheadFistpunch 06/24/2020 at 16:21

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JDP needs to revise this a bit into something like “nuisance ” issues (can’t pair phone, paint isn’t very good , tear in upholstery, etc. ) and “major” issues (major system doesn’t work, parts fall off car, etc.)

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:23

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How is Dodge in first place? Really really old designs that are entirely understood and ironed out? Mitsubishi in 6th really surprises me.

Shift24 > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:27

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Never got the initial quality, to me it doesn’t mean much but I’m more of a used car guy so I see what’s shit and what isn’t 5-10 years down the road.

Side note: kia in 2016 won with 83 per 100 with average at 106. The hell happen in 4 years to where the highest rated is 30 above the average?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ttyymmnn 06/24/2020 at 16:33

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We’re getting afternoon “monsoons” in Tucson, too.  But, hey, it’s foggy on the coast so we’re opting for June Monsoon over June Gloom.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:35

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JD POWAH

user314 > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 06/24/2020 at 16:35

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Disagree. They’re just two different metrics, and both have their uses . Low IQ scores could indicate issues with the production process (Lookin’ your way, Tesla!), while longer term surveys show if the design is solid.

That said, JDP undermined their own credibility by adding infotainment issues to the score. Like Snuze said, JDP should have different categories so we can get a better picture.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Snuze: Needs another Swede 06/24/2020 at 16:40

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Absolutely agreed. Having worked for Lexus on the customer training for their Nav, that it would drop their scores so significantly when nothing else is wrong with the vehicle is infuriating.

I never found the Lexus systems to be all that difficult if one was willing to at least try to use them. And their voice command tech is way above everyone else in the auto industry. But my comfort with those systems was also due entirely to repetition and familiarity.

Working for JLR now, their infotainment is simple and easy to use. But compared to behemoth that is Toyota/Lexus and their corporate support for their dealer staff, JLR still suffers from far too much British Leyland attitude. The amount of, “Eh. Close enough.” from even corporate people is hilarious.

The vehicles are way more entertaining than Lexus ever were; LC 500 and GS F excepted. But with that does come some, sigh..., quirks.

Damnit Demuro. 

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > user314 06/24/2020 at 16:43

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Fair point.

My point, which I didn’t state super well, is that ONLY lookin g at IQ is pointless. It needs to be taken into account, but only along side the other the other aspects of car ownership.

Kiltedpadre > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:45

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I recently called a local Chevy dealer looking for a part. They didn’t have it, but his computer showed him another location that showed it did. He put me on hold to verify and came back to tell me that they had it, but he found it online for me for less and gave me the website and part number to look it up.

The sales experience may be crap, but the parts guys can be a fantastic resource.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 06/24/2020 at 16:46

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Probably just takes longer than 60 days for their shit to fail. Toyota and Honda crap breaks up front, you get it fixed, and then it lasts forever.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 16:48

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I thought Porsche and Lexus are always at the top. 

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Shift24 06/24/2020 at 16:50

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In the late 70s Early 80s this was a very important measure. GM, Chrysler and Ford build quality was so bad in those days a lot of new cars just plain sucked. My father bought an Impala Wagon new in 1980, that had an entire door panel fall off when he opened the Tailgate for the 1st time, they forgot to put the screws in it.

Jayvincent > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 17:02

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when you out-Jaguar Jaguar, you’ve really accomplished something. Not a good thing, but some-thing

Ash78, voting early and often > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 17:08

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I’m not one to defend Tesla, but their owners strike me as the ones to find something that might be keeping the car from being perfect. Like, digging through lines of code like the car is an open-source software project...

“Tesla isn’t perfect yet, but we’re helping the cause!”

Elon: “ Keep it up, thanks.”

Svend > haveacarortwoorthree2 06/24/2020 at 17:10

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What? Really? How the hell is that even a thing? That’s insane.

So much for free speech. 

nermal > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 17:11

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Looking at the results, the current version of FCA’s infotainment system is very good. That’s why 3 out of 4 of their brands ranked highly. Chrysler mainly sells minivans to old people who can’t figure out technology, which is why they ranked low.

Digging farther into the article shows that the survey didn’t talk to anybody in CA, the biggest EV state in the country , to get feedback on Tesla, an EV-only company. From how I read it, the cars have a buncha panel gaps and crappy paint, in addition to general EV issues (range anxiety, etc) .

I suspect that in CA, buyers would overlook the crappy assembly and not have a problem with the EV stuff, thus giving a much more favorable score. 

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > ttyymmnn 06/24/2020 at 17:11

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Just like how people actually believe “hydrogen is the future”

LOL

ttyymmnn > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 06/24/2020 at 17:21

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It’s not?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 17:23

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Yeah and if you believe that Dodge and Kia are higher quality than Lexus, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

This study is clearly garbage.

But keep believing your own BS.

Hey... did you buy a Mirai yet? After all, you still think hydrogen cars the future, right?

You can get them now for under $10,000 with low mileage... like this one

My bird IS the word > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 17:36

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Stop thinking logically. Start thinking emotionally. Its so much easier that way

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > ttyymmnn 06/24/2020 at 17:39

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Well you can find out by buying one for yourself . Used ones have become CHEAP! Like this one.

M.T. Blake > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 20:00

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Revealing?!!! Hahah!!! Not at all!!!

.... Dodge is the worst this is fake news.

ranwhenparked > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 06/24/2020 at 22:11

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So, basically, like all the Big Three were in the ‘70s. Keep the assembly line moving no matter what, the dealer will catch it in PDI, if not, the customer just gets to do a warranty claim. That shows you how quickly Tesla has caught up with the big players - it took GM over 60 years to get that indifferent, they ’ve done it in a little over 10. 

Under_Score > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/24/2020 at 23:13

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“Nice.”

Owners of 2015 Kia Optimas with 80,000 miles that are currently driving Kia Forte loaners while their Optimas are getting new engines.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Kiltedpadre 06/25/2020 at 01:34

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Man, those guys are the best... I’m just glad they are there.

And, yeah, I’m a cynic but I think the Tesla “I hate all dealers” thing will get old when they realize they are trying to keep a 20 year old Model S on the road, with a busted screen, limited software support and two busted door handles. Tesla will have long since “disavowed” them... and without a Parts and Service Shoulder to go cry on? Fukt.

I went to TWO Chebby dealers this AM to solve my problem and they were both amazing.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/25/2020 at 09:25

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Anything JD Power publishes is basically useless. Things like their reliability rankings can be heavily affected by customers being too dumb too set up Bluetooth.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 06/26/2020 at 08:12

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And, yet, your core customer base will select your “car” over actual automobiles because of a Fart App....

go figure.

I hear what you’re saying, but it mis-characterizes what consumers find compelling in the user experience. Having a shitty UI in the entertainment system?  Most certainly DOES adversely affect customer perceptions.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/26/2020 at 09:32

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Having an actual button that says “phone” then having it prompt you to connect a Bluetooth device is shitty UI? Anyone who can’t figure that out is a moron. These are the same people that are still using a lightning cable from 5 years ago that had bare, exposed wiring and are wondering why it doesn’t work and why the head unit keeps crashing. Hmm maybe because you are literally shorting it out with your shitty old cable?

I get that there are shitty UI’s. But my industry experience tells me ther e are more stupid customers than shitty UI’s.

Then you get people who complain about things like shift quality when in reality it's normal function of a design they haven't felt or used before. Or "the engine is really loud in the morning" on an AMG. Or "suspension is too stiff" on a C63s. Being unfamiliar and having to learn about something new is fine, nothing wrong with that at all. But all of these complaints count for JD. And yes, these are real complaints I've seen personally.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 06/26/2020 at 10:31

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Without Dox’ing myself, let me say that I was “in on the ground floor” with Bluetooth implementations . And, yes, there’s shitty UI, but there’s also a lot of shitty implementations of some of the “profiles” which TO THIS DAY are hit-or-miss with regard to reliably connecting. Sad, but true. Exacerbated by the moving target in the BT Standards Working Groups.

My point is mainly, however, not to trivialize the petty shit that will put somebody “on” or “off” a brand. I worked with a VC guy years ago who loved BMW 7-series but “gave them up forever” over a $5K option package BMW made you buy to get the phone connection he preferred. Last I knew he’d switched to Infiniti over it and never went back. Didn’t say he was brilliant, only that he was almost a billionaire— and threw a tantrum over the phone interface.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 06/26/2020 at 13:59

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I’m with you on that. There are definitely shitty interfaces, and overall shitty stereo systems in some cars, easily a few years behind the phones they connect to or even aftermarket options from China. It’s ridiculous.

I guess my point is, overall, JD is garbage, but their lists and rankings need to be expanded and have more clarity. You can easily build a car to top all of their lists, but I would wager that car would suck in real life or be ready for the junkyard a year after JD stops testing it. And I say testing loosely, because their shit is often opinion-based, not scientifically tested.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 06/29/2020 at 11:47

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Or just get fed up with trying to rebuke all your bullshit.

I’m still not sure if Musk took Twitter lessons from Trump, or vice versa.